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Visit Michele-303554's column >>

MICHELE-303554

Articles Posted: 0  Links Seeded: 4
Member Since: 6/2008  Last Seen: 12/22/2008

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U.S. combat deaths in Iraq plunge to new low

Seeded on Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:03 AM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: msnbc.com
world-news, msnbci, conflict-in-iraq
Seeded by Michele-303554
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The number of U.S. soldiers killed in combat in Iraq has dropped sharply this month, putting July on track to have the lowest casualties for the military since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

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Michele-303554

Great. Advertise that and now Al Queda and the rebels in Iraq will increase their attacks.

    Reply#1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:04 AM EDT
    Wilfred of Ivanhoe

    But, according to McCain, we still need to keep large numbers of American troops in Iraq so these "gains" wont be "reversed." We've either made great progress in Iraq or we haven't. If we have, then let's start bringing our troops home in large numbers now.

    • 1 vote
    #1.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:01 AM EDT
    AJIowa

    I think that the U.S. presence in Iraq will be similar to the U.S. presence in Germany, Japan, and S. Korea. Those assignments are "cushy" today but were very tenuous 50 years ago. I think McCain was correct when he said that we might have troops in the region for 100 years. Hopefully that role will be in a support role to other operations (Afghanistan) or as a detterant in the region (Iran, Syria, etc.)

    • 3 votes
    #1.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
    superlogiDeleted
    DrWhoo

    But, according to McCain, we still need to keep large numbers of American troops in Iraq so these "gains" wont be "reversed." We've either made great progress in Iraq or we haven't. If we have, then let's start bringing our troops home in large numbers now.

    Gee! We didn't have any murders in our city today!

    Hey! We can get rid of all our cops then!!!

    LOL!

      #1.4 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
      Wilfred of Ivanhoe

      superlogi, save the "I paid the price and you didn't" crap. I served 39 months active duty as an officer in the U.S. Army. Therefore, I'll "pop poff" about any subject I desire. As we used to say in the Army: "You don't know sh*t from Shinola."

        #1.5 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:59 PM EDT
        Reply
        michelle-399392

        I want to know why they under talk the war in Iraq? When was the last time they showed the daily sirens that go off because of missiles that are targeting the base. Our soldiers are seeing IEDS all over the place and we don't see that anymore. This war is killing our troops and mentally hurting our troops. More troops to Afghanistan is already happening so why are they not speaking of that. I understand protecting our national security but is this about that or oil. I know many people feel the same way. I love our country and would die for our country but speak the truth.

          Reply#2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:10 AM EDT
          hadenough-345907Deleted
          kbmtexas

          I don't think they under talk the war, I truly feel things are getting better over there, they half to, we've just about killed all the bad guy's, right?, and the rest of them are slowly but surely blowing themselves up! If this war was about the oil we would be taking it all, but were not for some reason. Oil for peace? Isn't that what we should be getting, Lord knows we've paid enough for it both in money and lives!

          • 1 vote
          #2.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:59 AM EDT
          Gottalovem

          michelle,

          What is your experience and evidence to support such claims that "they" undertalk the situation in Iraq and are lying about it? Why do you use third person? - specify who is lying. We are at war and there will be casualties on both sides. There has always been more enemy casualties than US casualties in this war. But the media has focused only on our casualties to alarm the American people.

          Gen Petraeus, the combat commander on the ground, makes decisions based on combat intelligence - not what the media wants or what a politician wants him to do. It is his responsibility to his troops to speak the truth. He is not a politician on the ground, he is a warrior responsible for success on the ground. He is there to win this war and utilize whatever combat power he has at his disposal to do so.

          If the situation changes in Afghanistan and is supported by real intelligence - he will move to send more troops there to support that mission. It is a responsibility he is focused on 24/7, not 8 to 5. A politician may advocate doing so to boost his political campaign but if the combat situation does not support this decision, it won't happen fast, if at all. Only a fool who knows nothing about the military and warfighting would try to politicize actions of the troops on the ground. The decision was made to fight, and that means win at all costs.

          If this war were "all about oil" like some nitwits portend with no evidence, we would already be taking these resources out of Iraq - in volume too hard to ignore. It's not happening.

          • 2 votes
          #2.3 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:02 AM EDT
          wildbill-69

          Did you read the other story about Mexican drug violence.
          7,000+ deaths in 2 1/2 years!
          People are raising holy h*ll about Iraq, and should be, but not saying squat about the growing storm on our southern border and in our major cities.
          As of now, neither candidate seems to be aware that this problem exist. When one of these group of idiots machine guns fifty Innocent people, then everyone will extract their heads from their posteriors and realize we have a problem here on the home front.
          As for Iraq and the surge. I remember when everyone in the media and Washington thought McCain had fell off his rocker for suggesting that we could still turn this thing around. By sending in more troops and letting the generals who had experience and training in dealing with that type situation run things rather than bureaucrats in the Pentagon. They finally did and it appears to be working, at least in the short run.
          What amazing is how QUICK people forget who was one of only a few in Washington suggesting it. And it da%n sure wasn't Hussein!!
          I'm still having a hard time getting my hands around exactly what Hussein been doing since being elected to the senate?

          • 2 votes
          #2.4 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:52 AM EDT
          michelle-399392

          When was the last time you heard that there are daily missiles shot at our bases. That our military have to run for cover? My experience is several loved ones that have been there VERY recently and have come back talking about how when they watch the news nothing is on about the real happenings over there. You think that our military is safe? Every day IED's exploding causing physical and mental injuries? I am certainly not stating that Gen Petraeus is not doing his job. I am saying that the news is not reporting what really is happening. There is HUGE PTSD coming back from over there. have you talked to many that have come back from there. I still say there are under playing it. They want us to think it is better and in some ways it is but the stress the military live under daily is tremendous.

            #2.5 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:58 AM EDT
            A-Rock

            michelle,

            I drove an M-1 thruough Fallujah and Baghdad...then did another tour stationed in Baghdad. I've seen the results of war first hand. I can tell you right now our people are not running for cover. When you are on base, which most soldiers are most of the time, and you hear mortars it gets to the point where you don't even notice. There are going to be casualties in war...it happens unfortunately. Don't worry about mental anquish as much as you are...this isn't the first war we have fought and I garauntee it won't be the last.

              #2.6 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:18 PM EDT
              Reply
              Jan-357844

              So Obama is goning to bring our troops home and send them to Afghanistan all at the same time.
              Gosh he is good. Now if we can just figure out for WHAT.

                Reply#3 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:25 AM EDT
                RC-391328

                He isn't saying bring them all home. He is saying out of Iraq, if conditions there allow it. he is also saying Afghanistan is the true base of terrorism and that is where we need to concentrate our efforts on the war. Don't be a dumba**. Try thinking for yourself for once, instead of just spouting out Karl Rove's talking points.

                  #3.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:31 AM EDT
                  wildbill-69

                  Or George Soros!! Dumba$$!!

                    #3.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
                    DrWhoo

                    Yeah right.

                    Obama wants to pull out of Iraq so Al Qaeda can have a shot at it there again.

                    And send our troops to Afghanistan ... when the terrorists are actually in Pakistan.

                    Sounds like a plan!

                    LOL!

                      #3.3 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
                      JON-401410

                      Hey Dude
                      When Saddam was the supreme ruler of Iraq as he was when we invaded there was no al qaeda
                      there he was a strongarmed absolute dictator and would have lopped off the heads and hands of anyone who gave him crap So our great dictator {praise Bush} went in toppled his government and killed him and his loser sons so that al qeada would have somewhere to hang out Im kinda paraphrasing but this is what happened and if you dont believe it maybe you can sit with Bush
                      and Cheney as they await trial as war criminals Have a nice day!

                        #3.4 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:09 AM EDT
                        A-Rock

                        Jon you're a tard. If Al Queda wan't in Irag how do you explain the training camps found. How do you explain the audio-taped meeting in 1997 between upper cabinet members of Saddams regime and Al Queda leadership? Oh by the way genius how would be possible to try Bush and Cheney as war criminals without trying every congressman/woman that voted along with it. Liberals say the dumbest things...

                          #3.5 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:22 PM EDT
                          Reply
                          sflg

                          Around 4120???????? They are our sons and daughters ,fathers and brothers.The count is definitive -just ask some mothers who lost their child in this folly. and what about the thousands of them who come home to try and deal with their lives-never again to be the same or shipped to some long term care facility because they are shells of what they were. and you can't even give "the number"

                            Reply#4 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:27 AM EDT
                            AJIowa

                            4,120 is a large number and I have the utmost respect for families that have lost loved ones in this conflict. But seeing this number leads me to take a look at how "bad" this is. During the first 3 years of the war when we were "losing" the death rate (figures from the Washington Post) was 3.92 per 1000 people based on an annual basis.

                            The total rate for America "was 8.42 per 1,000 in 2003, more than twice that for military personnel in Iraq. The comparison is imperfect, of course, because a much higher fraction of the American population is elderly and subject to higher death rates from degenerative diseases."

                            The death rate for African American men ages 20 to 34 in Philadelphia was 4.37 per 1,000 in 2002, 11 percent higher than among troops in Iraq.

                            During the time frame of the war approximately 42,000 American teenagers (just teenagers) have died in car wrecks.

                            Again, I'm sorry for everyone who has lost a loved one. But I think we need to put the total in perspective.

                            • 1 vote
                            #4.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
                            sflg

                            ajiowa - you obviously think in a bush world

                              #4.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:17 PM EDT
                              AJIowa

                              No, I think for myself. I'm a high school teacher that is tired of going to a funeral on an almost annual basis for the kids that never make it to graduation. 4,120 is a big number but small in comparison to other deaths all around us that are also preventable.

                              • 1 vote
                              #4.3 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              Marcus-341924

                              Rats!!! How is Obama gonna be able to surrender if things are going good. I'm confident he'll find a way around this.

                                Reply#5 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:29 AM EDT
                                kbmtexas

                                That's ridiculous to say!

                                • 1 vote
                                #5.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:46 AM EDT
                                Frank-68Deleted
                                JON-401410

                                Hey Frank
                                My daughter is active duty USAF thank GOD not in Iraq But she volunteered to better herself
                                get an education and serve her country she did not and Im sure the other enlisted people
                                didnt volunteer to be used as cannon fodder in a conflict started illegaly and without the blessing of the american people the government is using the armed forces as a private security firm so that
                                war profiteers can make money off the the blood of our children If would read the truth talk to the returning soldiers just open your eyes man they didnt volunteer for this crap!

                                  #5.3 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:31 AM EDT
                                  A-Rock

                                  If they volunteered after the war started....how is it that they didn't volunteer for that "crap"? Another genius comment!!

                                    #5.4 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:24 PM EDT
                                    fedupwithliberals

                                    Jon-

                                    What do you think the military is for??? While I appreciate your daughter's service, you need to remember that our tax dollars are not used to pay her salary and GI bill just so she can "better herself". The military was established for one purpose: to defend our nation against threats, both foreign and domestic. Period. Not to ensure that some people get an education. And while I admire your daughter for wanting to serve her country, the way she chose to serve means there is a possibility she COULD be sent to a war zone. It's part of the deal when you enlist.

                                    All my friends that are in the military (and I have several, since I live in Colorado Springs) are proud to serve, and realize that it's their job. Do they like being away from their families for up to 15 months? No. Would they rather not be in a war? Of course. But they serve with pride anyway.

                                      #5.5 - Fri Aug 1, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      john-399419

                                      5 deaths in iraq for july!!!!! this cannot be true.on this past sunday morning w. george steph. he reported 22 deaths in the past 2 wks !!!!!! the pentagon is lying as usual.

                                        Reply#6 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:40 AM EDT
                                        kbmtexas

                                        5 Americans! This article is not referring to the Iraqi civilians and army deaths.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #6.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:05 AM EDT
                                        Reply
                                        kbmtexas

                                        I think it's good that our troops are safer in Iraq, maybe now is the time to start bringing them home for I feel certain that the Israelis with the prodding of George W. are going to start something in Iran that we will half to finish and our troops need a break before that starts. Bush is a war monger and I pray he doesn't light up Iran before his term ends, this country has flushed enough money down the toilet called the middle east!

                                        • 1 vote
                                        Reply#7 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:51 AM EDT
                                        diamondgirlDeleted
                                        hadenough-345907Deleted
                                        A-Rock

                                        Middle East may have been the "cradle of civilization" but they haven't exactly socially evolved much since then...honor killings, religious intolerance.....mud huts...

                                        *think again before posting your prejudicial sh*tty comments about toilets*

                                        wouldn't want to offend toilets would we?

                                          #7.3 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:27 PM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          Jonathan-399434

                                          no matter what the death count is, it still doesn't make it a just war.

                                            Reply#8 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:53 AM EDT
                                            brian Got

                                            Marcus, you nailed it! I'm sure Obamamaniacs will find a way to give Lord Obama credit for the reduction in violence. If Obama had his way on the surge, we would be seeing a much higher casualty rate.
                                            I cannot trust a candidate that will not give credit where credit is due. A new type of politics.. yea right. I used to be an Obama supporter (even volunteered on his website) but not anymore.
                                            MCCAIN FOR PRESIDENT!!

                                              Reply#9 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:54 AM EDT
                                              Chris A.-327427

                                              What are you saying? Osama Obama did reduce the violence over there. Al Gore also invented the Internet. Ha!

                                                #9.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:00 AM EDT
                                                kbmtexas

                                                Yeah, and global warming is just as real as Saddam's WMD's! Give me a break!!

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #9.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:03 AM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Chris A.-327427

                                                It's like squeezing a balloon. You squeeze one side the air goes to the other. Shift the troops out of Iraq to Afghanistan, then the terrorists will reposition there. This is a war in which we will have troops over there for many years to come. Any politician that says they will be bringing our troops home is either flat out lying to get elected or doesn't have a clue.

                                                  Reply#10 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:57 AM EDT
                                                  Gottalovem

                                                  Chris,

                                                  Are you joking? We have killed off the large majority of the Al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq by taking out most of their top leaders. We have removed all of the leaders from Saddam's Republican Guard regime as well as his two awful sons, Uday and Qusay, who were leading the executions of thousands of Iraqi families. That's why the situation is better in Iraq. We still have work to do in Afghanistan and Pakistan - their day is coming.

                                                  Sure there's still extremism in Iraq as witnessed by the supposed "female suicide bombings". We don't know if these are suicides, or coerced actions on the part of Al Qaeda or extremist tribal thugs who would threaten the lives of a woman's entire family to force her to blow herself up in a crowd. These animals have no conscience.

                                                  We can be thankful that this is not happening here. If we don't stop these extremists, it could.

                                                    #10.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:17 AM EDT
                                                    Chris A.-327427

                                                    The point I was making is that there is no way we will be pulling troops out in 16 months. In every war we have been in, we have had to maintain a presence for many years after. I'm not the situation hasn't gotten better.

                                                      #10.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:23 AM EDT
                                                      Reply
                                                      Gary-361079

                                                      This is HORRIBLE HORRIBLE for liberal Dems and the Obama campaign. A terrible economy and defeat in Iraq is what they both are hoping for. Sad isn't it.................

                                                        Reply#11 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:00 AM EDT
                                                        desert voice

                                                        Iraq needs to be partitioned for a decade, to cool off! This is pure common sense. As long as there are women in abayas, there will be no way to stop female bombers! This is the reality of Moslem countries, and nothing will change this ... except dissolving the country until the hate dies down! This is why I believe that Prime Minister al-Maliki must accept a temporary partition, unless he is willing to order all women in bikini! The Kurds have no such problem, and they should be given an independent state. But the Sunnis and Shiites need to be separated by the UN!

                                                          Reply#12 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:01 AM EDT
                                                          Chris A.-327427

                                                          An easier way to eliminate women bombers is to have them go naked.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #12.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:07 AM EDT
                                                          AJIowa

                                                          I agree that partitioning of the country might be a good answer. Iraq has only been a country for about 90 years. It was created by diplomats looking over a world map in London and Paris. Maybe a partitioning of Iraq (like India and Pakistan) will lower violence in the short term.

                                                            #12.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:31 AM EDT
                                                            Reply
                                                            L Kay

                                                            George W.'s War

                                                            By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, June 20, 2008 4:20 PM PT

                                                            No one likes war. War is a horrific affair, bloody and expensive. Sending our men and women into battle to perhaps die or be maimed is an unconscionable thought.

                                                            Yet some wars need to be waged, and someone needs to lead. The citizenry and Congress are often ambivalent or largely opposed to any given war. It's up to our leader to convince them. That's why we call the leader 'Commander in Chief.'

                                                            George W.'s war was no different. There was lots of resistance to it. Many in Congress were vehemently against the idea. The Commander in Chief had to lobby for legislative approval.

                                                            Along with supporters, George W. used the force of his convictions, the power of his title and every ounce of moral persuasion he could muster to rally support. He had to assure Congress and the public that the war was morally justified, winnable and affordable. Congress eventually came around and voted overwhelmingly to wage war.

                                                            George W. then lobbied foreign governments for support. But in the end, only one European nation helped us. The rest of the world sat on its hands and watched. After a few quick victories, things started to go bad. There were many dark days when all the news was discouraging. Casualties began to mount. It became obvious that our forces were too small. Congress began to drag its feet about funding the effort.

                                                            Many who had voted to support the war just a few years earlier were beginning to speak against it and accuse the Commander in Chief of misleading them. Many critics began to call him incompetent, an idiot and even a liar. Journalists joined the negative chorus with a vengeance.

                                                            As the war entered its fourth year, the public began to grow weary of the conflict and the casualties. George W.'s popularity plummeted. Yet through it all, he stood firm, supporting the troops and endorsing the struggle.

                                                            Without his unwavering support, the war would have surely ended, then and there, in overwhelming and total defeat. At this darkest of times, he began to make some changes. More troops were added and trained. Some advisers were shuffled, and new generals installed.

                                                            Then, unexpectedly and gradually, things began to improve. Now it was the enemy that appeared to be growing weary of the lengthy conflict and losing support. Victories began to come, and hope returned.

                                                            Many critics in Congress and the press said the improvements were just George W.'s good luck. The progress, they said, would be temporary. He knew, however, that in warfare good fortune counts.

                                                            Then, in the unlikeliest of circumstances and perhaps the most historic example of military luck, the enemy blundered and was resoundingly defeated. After six long years of war, the Commander in Chief basked in a most hard-fought victory.

                                                            So on that historic day, Oct. 19, 1781, in a place called Yorktown, a satisfied George Washington sat upon his beautiful white horse and accepted the surrender of Lord Cornwallis, effectively ending the Revolutionary War.

                                                            something to think about to all you self righteous bleeding heart liberal ignoramous's

                                                              Reply#13 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
                                                              L Kay

                                                              George W.'s War

                                                              By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, June 20, 2008 4:20 PM PT

                                                              No one likes war. War is a horrific affair, bloody and expensive. Sending our men and women into battle to perhaps die or be maimed is an unconscionable thought.

                                                              Yet some wars need to be waged, and someone needs to lead. The citizenry and Congress are often ambivalent or largely opposed to any given war. It's up to our leader to convince them. That's why we call the leader 'Commander in Chief.'

                                                              George W.'s war was no different. There was lots of resistance to it. Many in Congress were vehemently against the idea. The Commander in Chief had to lobby for legislative approval.

                                                              Along with supporters, George W. used the force of his convictions, the power of his title and every ounce of moral persuasion he could muster to rally support. He had to assure Congress and the public that the war was morally justified, winnable and affordable. Congress eventually came around and voted overwhelmingly to wage war.

                                                              George W. then lobbied foreign governments for support. But in the end, only one European nation helped us. The rest of the world sat on its hands and watched. After a few quick victories, things started to go bad. There were many dark days when all the news was discouraging. Casualties began to mount. It became obvious that our forces were too small. Congress began to drag its feet about funding the effort.

                                                              Many who had voted to support the war just a few years earlier were beginning to speak against it and accuse the Commander in Chief of misleading them. Many critics began to call him incompetent, an idiot and even a liar. Journalists joined the negative chorus with a vengeance.

                                                              As the war entered its fourth year, the public began to grow weary of the conflict and the casualties. George W.'s popularity plummeted. Yet through it all, he stood firm, supporting the troops and endorsing the struggle.

                                                              Without his unwavering support, the war would have surely ended, then and there, in overwhelming and total defeat. At this darkest of times, he began to make some changes. More troops were added and trained. Some advisers were shuffled, and new generals installed.

                                                              Then, unexpectedly and gradually, things began to improve. Now it was the enemy that appeared to be growing weary of the lengthy conflict and losing support. Victories began to come, and hope returned.

                                                              Many critics in Congress and the press said the improvements were just George W.'s good luck. The progress, they said, would be temporary. He knew, however, that in warfare good fortune counts.

                                                              Then, in the unlikeliest of circumstances and perhaps the most historic example of military luck, the enemy blundered and was resoundingly defeated. After six long years of war, the Commander in Chief basked in a most hard-fought victory.

                                                              So on that historic day, Oct. 19, 1781, in a place called Yorktown, a satisfied George Washington sat upon his beautiful white horse and accepted the surrender of Lord Cornwallis, effectively ending the Revolutionary War.
                                                              THIS IS FOR ALL YOU SELF RIGHTEOUS BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS THAT MORE THAN LIKELY CHOSE NEVER TO DEFEND THIS GREAT COUNTRY....... I HAVE PROUDLY!!

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              Reply#14 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:06 AM EDT
                                                              Chris A.-327427

                                                              Good point and IBD is a great paper. The problem is that the circumstances are different here. We are fighting on foreign soil not our own.

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #14.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
                                                              AJIowa

                                                              Good article, Chris A brings up a good point, the circumstances are different. During the revolutionary war civilians were not being tortured and murdered on a daily basis before the war. Soldiers from both sides in 1776 would pillage the local country side for food and supplies. We are also more united now then we were in 1776 to fight this war.

                                                                #14.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:36 AM EDT
                                                                Wilfred of Ivanhoe

                                                                You can always count on IBD for the jingoistic view. What a laughable article. It's amazing how people continue to get suckered in by fluff like this.

                                                                  #14.3 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:08 AM EDT
                                                                  bry33

                                                                  Yeah, that's a nice article and all, but has absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Iraq. In 1776 America had to fight its freedom, whereas with Iraq our freedom was not an issue in any way and didn't even pose a threat. Aslo, Iraq is not our land, they are a SOVEREIGN nation and they want US troops out, as any nation would.

                                                                    #14.4 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:42 AM EDT
                                                                    JON-401410

                                                                    I cant believe you just posted that crap comparing george bush to george washington
                                                                    george bush is a drunken fool who couldnt find his rear end with both hands everything he has ever done in his adult life has turned out to be crap with the possible exception of his wife and children who seem to be ok by me He is a liar cheat murderer and has made a mockery of the constitution
                                                                    The republicans shut this country down a few years ago when the best president in recent history got caught fooling around with a woman, this freak personally has the blood of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE on his hands and you defend him WHO ARE YOU ?
                                                                    REPUBLICANS REMEMBER THIS THE STUFF YOU HAVE DONE TO MY COUNTRY OVER THE PAST 8 YEARS IS GOING TO COME BACK AND BITE YOU . Have a nice day.

                                                                      #14.5 - Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:41 AM EDT
                                                                      Reply
                                                                      Cookster

                                                                      Are you surprised by the decline? Obama just sprinkled magic dust all over the Middle East! Next week the entire region will form a giant chain by holding hands. They will be singing " I want to buy the world a coke and sing in perfect harmony".

                                                                        Reply#15 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:10 AM EDT
                                                                        David-399463

                                                                        I would suggest that each of you who know everything there is about the middle east and conducting war and feel you can speak for every soldier in Iraq, even though you probably can't find it on the map, find the time to learn, without political bias, the true history of the region and our involvement. For those of you who have never been in the military...your not qualified to say anything about what they see every day or how they feel unless you know every soldier, sailor, marine or airman there.
                                                                        And yes, if you want to know, I am a Vietnam veteran and spent 12.5 years in the Air Force. Why don't you get behind your country rather than sit around complaining to the world. We can argue about whether it was right or wrong once all of our folks are out of harms way.

                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                        Reply#16 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:20 AM EDT
                                                                        phantom-396954

                                                                        Do I have to know EVERYONE or will just a couple do. :)

                                                                          #16.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:58 AM EDT
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          David-399463

                                                                          To Chris A.... I realize you are probably too young and a product of the "new" education system...but do you not understand that WW I and WW II were both fought on foreign soil?

                                                                            Reply#17 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
                                                                            Chris A.-327427

                                                                            And we had to maintain a large troop presence in Europe and Japan for many years after. Granted some of it was reconstruction related. You can also include in that the Korean war we also did. I'm not sure which comment of mine you were addressing.

                                                                              #17.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:40 AM EDT
                                                                              Reply
                                                                              Laura-399472

                                                                              Ok...now count the critically injured, PST's and service men that will never have a normal life.

                                                                              Once you count "all of them"...then write your story.

                                                                                Reply#18 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
                                                                                Dan-252312Deleted
                                                                                phantom-396954

                                                                                ok, let me understand this. When casualties were high liberals said we were losing and wanted to bring home the troops to save US lives. Now that casualties are low they want to bring home the troops because we are winning.

                                                                                Seems to me the bottomline for liberals is bring home the troops regardless of the situation. Any why do they only want to bring home troops from Iraq. Does it really matter to a family if their loved one is killed in Iraq or Afghanistan? If the goal is to protect US troop lives then why say we should shift there?

                                                                                  Reply#20 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:46 AM EDT
                                                                                  bry33

                                                                                  No, it's that this is an unjust war based on lies that never should have been fought in the first place. It's not even about "winning or losing."

                                                                                    #20.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:55 AM EDT
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    phantom-396954

                                                                                    Could those who have been against the war since the beginning please answer something that has been bothering me? First let me state that I do not like President Bush.

                                                                                    However, from the left I keep hearing how stupid Bush is. If he is so stupid then how did he convince all those smart liberal dems in congress to vote to give him the power to wage war? I know he lied but if those lib dems were sooooo smart why didn't they see the lie? Either Bush is a lot smarter than given credit for or the lib dems in congress are stupid to be fooled by a dunce.

                                                                                    Which is it?

                                                                                      Reply#21 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
                                                                                      rmantano

                                                                                      It is neither. The dems were too scared of the republican smear machine to go on the attack making them out to be unpatriotic, and at the time everybody was scared to death of that. I do not condone that kind of cowardice, but that is the way it was. The ones I give credit too are the few who had the guts to stand up and protest at the time. The rest can be replaced, in my opinion.

                                                                                        #21.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:14 AM EDT
                                                                                        phantom-396954

                                                                                        wow, what a great choice. They are either stupid or gutless. And these are the people that run the dem party and want to lead this nation? scary. BTW I'm an independent so please don't take my comments as defending republican leaders.

                                                                                          #21.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:19 AM EDT
                                                                                          rmantano

                                                                                          As far as I am concerned I would like to make a clean sweep and start over. Our government is so inept and corrupt that I would like to just wipe it clean and reload the operating system - to borrow a computer metaphor.

                                                                                            #21.3 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
                                                                                            bry33

                                                                                            So it would be worse to vote for the party that wrongly went along (for the most part) with the war that the Bush adm. sold with lies and exaggeration, than to vote for the party that actually started the war. Some logic.

                                                                                              #21.4 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:48 AM EDT
                                                                                              rmantano

                                                                                              I am not saying that at all. I advocate getting rid of the warmongers and spineless sycophants and replacing them with real statesmen and women.

                                                                                                #21.5 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
                                                                                                Reply
                                                                                                David-399463

                                                                                                Laura...you are confusing what is sometimes a necessity of war with "love" of war. With few exceptions I doubt you'll find many in the world who love war. But you also need to understand that at times there is a necessary reason for going to war. If you study the middle east and our relations with them since WWII...there was minimal involvement before WWII, mostly missionaries, teachers... you will find that behind the scenes, not available to the public, presidents of both parties and their staff were making all the decisions as to how to deal with the region using information the public and sometimes the congress did not have access to. Most people think it's all about the oil...and that was a lot of it, but not for us... 75% of the oil for Europe, after WWII came from the middle east. The US felt that it was necessary to provide assurances that Europe would not be cut-off and that's why we got involved...we were also afraid the Soviet Union would move into the strategic area if we did not. You have got to stop thinking emotionally and start looking at history and facts. By the way, in 1946 we were supply all of our own oil so we didn't see the need for middle east oil.

                                                                                                Sometimes it requires a true sacrafice and yes people die and get maimed physically or mentally for life. But you better understand because people before you and I were willing to make the sacrafice, you and I both have the right to sit here and make our comments about our government. If you want to see the difference why don't you take a trip to Syria or Lebanon and stand in the middle of the market place and as loud as you can start demeaning their governments and inciting their citizens to rally against them. Then maybe you'll understand the sacrafices made were not in vain as you suppose but actually did buy your freedoms.

                                                                                                • 3 votes
                                                                                                Reply#22 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:01 AM EDT
                                                                                                rmantano

                                                                                                So, are you saying that the Iraq war was necessary to preserve our freedom?

                                                                                                  #22.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:16 AM EDT
                                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                                  L Kay

                                                                                                  to AJlowa
                                                                                                  I beg to differ........ circumstances are quite similar.......... entire towns and villages were burned to the ground by the enemy after they took what they wanted. Also with The murder of young and old men who were suspected of soldiering. Other than technological advances it is the same. Are you aware the British actually introduced the practice of scalping the enemy, torture? I think so.
                                                                                                  AHH...... are we more united now? militarily, Yes........ socially and economically...... Far from it. Alot of people need to start looking outside of the tiny box they live in

                                                                                                    Reply#23 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:03 AM EDT
                                                                                                    loggerbill3rd

                                                                                                    Bleeding heart liberals. What's up with that? The words liberal, democracy, socialist, capitalist, republican, communist are all just distractions. They have all been used by the masses for great debates but the truth is they are just merely distractions that make us loose focus on the real issues at hand. The world since the last real justifiabe war, the second world war has changed considerably. Wars now are not fought for glory and freedom, they are fought for corporate agendas. Example: September 11/01 Twin Towers taken down by hijacked planes. The culprits of this attrocity were from Saudi Arabia not Iraq. Since the invasion of Iraq millions of people have paid dearly for something they have or never contributed to. They were not involved with 9/11 but for some reason paid a huge price and continue to do so. Why? because George Bush and company have one heck of a good relationship with the Saudis. The Saudis have trillions of dollars of money tied up in America and if the US would of done the right thing the first time around the Saudis would have pulled everthing out of the US and bankrupted it. So the next best thing was to lie to the good people of America and tell them that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and that Saddam Hussein was americas biggest threat. The american media fed off this like a pack of hungry wolves. No one questioned everyone just agreed to agree. Some of the worlds most powerful corporations like a certain oil and gas services company and weopons manufacturers have reaped the benefits of this lie since the start of it and will continue to do so after for many years. Being Proud of where you are from is important, but understanding what you are getting yourself into is just as important. I think 4120 young american men and women dying for a corporate agenda is wrong and hopefully one day the truth will prevail and the guilty will be brought to justice.

                                                                                                      Reply#24 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
                                                                                                      phantom-396954

                                                                                                      I don't know if the war in Iraq was necessary to perserve our freedom but a war somewhere against radical Islam is necessary. Was the best place Afghanistan? I doubt it. Was/is Iraq the best place? I don't know. But it is better than Europe or here. We (the west) are in a war against radical Islam (notice I don't write all Islam) and will have to fight somewhere. Anyone who thinks that we can talk to the radical islamist is either an idiot or .... there is no "or". They are idiots and if they (the idiots) gain power in the west then we will lose or at best be forced into another horror like WW 2.

                                                                                                        Reply#25 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:27 AM EDT
                                                                                                        rmantano

                                                                                                        Your point is well taken, but how do you fight a philosophy with bullets and bombs?

                                                                                                          #25.1 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:42 AM EDT
                                                                                                          bry33

                                                                                                          Do you even realize that there was no al Qaida or Taliban in Iraq and we've never been attacked by any Iraqis before the war. As for keeping us safe, all this war has done, according to our own intelligence, has increased the numbers of al Qaida.

                                                                                                            #25.2 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:52 AM EDT
                                                                                                            phantom-396954

                                                                                                            rmantano,

                                                                                                            That statement of fighting a philosophy with bullets and bombs came out of the liberal anti-war Vietnam era. It is utter BS. Is not communism a philosophy? Is not fascism a philosophy? Is not the belief that a king is a god a philosophy or that he gets divine guidance a philosophy? Did we not fight all of these with bullets and bombs? Or did we talk the Nazi's out of trying to conqueror the world? Maybe it was because we talked with the Soviet Union that they no longer exist? We fought them in Korea, Vietnam and several other smaller conflicts before we finally destroyed them.

                                                                                                            What can we possibly say to radical Islamist that will change their belief that we have to either convert to Islam or die?

                                                                                                              #25.3 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
                                                                                                              phantom-396954

                                                                                                              bry33,

                                                                                                              I will agree that there were no Taliban in Iraq before the invasion but there was Al Qaida. Granted they were in camps up in the Kurdish area but they were there. Next, you are totally wrong about never being attacked by any Iraqis before the war. History did not start with the invasion of Iraq. From 1992 until the invasion, Iraqis shot at US aircraft many times which is why President Clinton ordered several attacks on Iraq culminating in the largest one called Desert Fox in 1998.

                                                                                                              As for our intelligence, don't make me laugh. What we know fills a cup while what we don't know fills a pool. Regardless, since the invasion there has been no attack on any US interest outside of Iraq or Afghanistan. No embassies blown up, no Kobar Towers, no Cole attacks, no airplanes into buildings. I think we are safer. Personally I would prefer to fight an enemy by getting them into one location and killing them than try to stop them all around the world.

                                                                                                              ANYONE who knows anything about fighting a war knows that the way to destroy an enemy force is to locate it, pin it and then bring overwhelming firepower onto it. There are several different ways to do that but I won't go into the science and art of warfare here.

                                                                                                              • 1 vote
                                                                                                              #25.4 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
                                                                                                              bry33

                                                                                                              Phantom,

                                                                                                              What you're saying about fighting a war is true, but you're talking about fighting a war against a state, which of course fighting terrorist is not. We are simply not going to get the terrorist in one place, especially not Iraq, and kill them all. What this war has done though is increase the ranks of Al Quida. A joint report by our 16 intelligence agencies determined that this war has made us less safe. Not to mention the horrible price paid in human life and money we don't have.

                                                                                                              Of course we don't know all the intelligence, bu if there was substantial intelligence that supported this war it would have been on every front page. It's obvious that this adm. would do this -- as would any.

                                                                                                              Maybe Iraqis shot at our aircraft, but that was in Iraq, and was certainly no reason for this war. Al Quida and Saddam were enemies and Saddam was considered an infedel by religious extremist like AQ and the Taliban. Maybe there were AQ camps in the Kurdish area, but again, this was no reason to attack Iraq.

                                                                                                                #25.5 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
                                                                                                                Reply
                                                                                                                CSU_Student

                                                                                                                Can people please comment on this... I would love to hear YOUR opinions...

                                                                                                                Maybe (just maybe) the lull in the deaths of our troops in Iraq is due to the ideas of the timetable pullout??? I mean think of it as strategy from the other side, if we were in Iraq, and Al Qaeda was discussing on the news (Al Jazeera) almost EVERY day about pulling their troops out of Iraq within the next year, and they were electing a new leader who was pushing for a pullout... wouldn't WE (U.S) just kick back, train more men, prepare and get ready for when the enemy leaves then do MASSIVE offensives and take over??? I'm just curious as to why our government hasn't considered this, and what we are going to do about when we begin our pullout, and Irak will become worse than ever?!

                                                                                                                COMMENTS?!?! YOUR THOUGHT?!?!

                                                                                                                  Reply#26 - Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
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